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	<title>Comments on: Frontline: Jesus in China</title>
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	<link>http://jimazing.com/blog/2008/07/jesus-in-china/</link>
	<description>A jimazing view of the world</description>
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		<title>By: ded</title>
		<link>http://jimazing.com/blog/2008/07/jesus-in-china/comment-page-1/#comment-287</link>
		<dc:creator>ded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I didn&#039;t hear you being critical.  I understand the spirit of your musing.  I was just joining in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t hear you being critical.  I understand the spirit of your musing.  I was just joining in.</p>
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		<title>By: jimazing</title>
		<link>http://jimazing.com/blog/2008/07/jesus-in-china/comment-page-1/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>jimazing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimazing.com/blog/2008/07/10/jesus-in-china/#comment-286</guid>
		<description>mjh - thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I hope you are right about the future creativity in the church Chinese or otherwise.  I have a friend who blogs at &lt;a href=&quot;http://postmodernegro.wordpress.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Musings of a Postmodern Negro&lt;/a&gt;.  As a black man his stories have greatly influenced my perspective to see that we have a very western view of Jesus.  Whether that is bad or not, is debatable, but the danger in it all to me is that we begin to think that the way we see it is the way it is.  It has always bugged me that Jesus is portrayed as a white guy in all the movies and art throughout the ages.  Even in the Passion of the Christ a few years back, all the disciples were clearly Middle Eastern, but Jesus was a Caucasian.  Maybe it doesn’t matter, but it seems to be indicative of an arrogant attitude that I don’t find to be Godly.  I think that is what bothered me in the Frontline report.

ded - thanks for your thoughts.  You asked (and answered), &quot;If the Spirit of Christ is evident and growing, is the format a problem? Probably not.&quot;  I don’t disagree with your conclusion... and my purpose (as stated) was not to be critical of how someone &quot;does church.&quot;  Just wondering out loud... and maybe trying to figure out how to &quot;do church&quot; myself. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mjh &#8211; thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I hope you are right about the future creativity in the church Chinese or otherwise.  I have a friend who blogs at <a href="http://postmodernegro.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">Musings of a Postmodern Negro</a>.  As a black man his stories have greatly influenced my perspective to see that we have a very western view of Jesus.  Whether that is bad or not, is debatable, but the danger in it all to me is that we begin to think that the way we see it is the way it is.  It has always bugged me that Jesus is portrayed as a white guy in all the movies and art throughout the ages.  Even in the Passion of the Christ a few years back, all the disciples were clearly Middle Eastern, but Jesus was a Caucasian.  Maybe it doesn’t matter, but it seems to be indicative of an arrogant attitude that I don’t find to be Godly.  I think that is what bothered me in the Frontline report.</p>
<p>ded &#8211; thanks for your thoughts.  You asked (and answered), &#8220;If the Spirit of Christ is evident and growing, is the format a problem? Probably not.&#8221;  I don’t disagree with your conclusion&#8230; and my purpose (as stated) was not to be critical of how someone &#8220;does church.&#8221;  Just wondering out loud&#8230; and maybe trying to figure out how to &#8220;do church&#8221; myself. <img src='http://jimazing.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: ded</title>
		<link>http://jimazing.com/blog/2008/07/jesus-in-china/comment-page-1/#comment-284</link>
		<dc:creator>ded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimazing.com/blog/2008/07/10/jesus-in-china/#comment-284</guid>
		<description>Kind of begs the question does a Christian sub-culture exist which automatically replicates itself regardless of the at-large cultural status-quo?

Why would that be? If it is efficient as you suggest, that would explain it. What if it were something else? Perhaps in desiring to be what others expect (bouncy dancing while singing repetitious choruses to the few young folks with microphones leading the singing in a line on the stage…),do we limit what we may become?  If so, does this weaken the experience of the Spirit?  If the Spirit of Christ is evident and growing, is the format a problem? Probably not.

I appreciated this post, Jim.  I&#039;ve always admired your purposeful thinking!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kind of begs the question does a Christian sub-culture exist which automatically replicates itself regardless of the at-large cultural status-quo?</p>
<p>Why would that be? If it is efficient as you suggest, that would explain it. What if it were something else? Perhaps in desiring to be what others expect (bouncy dancing while singing repetitious choruses to the few young folks with microphones leading the singing in a line on the stage…),do we limit what we may become?  If so, does this weaken the experience of the Spirit?  If the Spirit of Christ is evident and growing, is the format a problem? Probably not.</p>
<p>I appreciated this post, Jim.  I&#8217;ve always admired your purposeful thinking!</p>
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		<title>By: mjh</title>
		<link>http://jimazing.com/blog/2008/07/jesus-in-china/comment-page-1/#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator>mjh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jimazing.com/blog/2008/07/10/jesus-in-china/#comment-285</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think that the relatively new Chinese church is going to do church this way forever.    I suspect that the official church will have a harder time changing than the house churches.

The Chinese Christian church is relatively new.  Whenever people do something new, the first thing that they do (wisely) is look around at how someone else is doing it, and imitate.  Over time, however, they find things that they don&#039;t like and change them.  Sometimes it takes a while to figure out what you don&#039;t like.  And even more time to figure out what change you want to put in place.

The key, however to this dynamism, is freedom.  If the Chinese Christians have constraints on their ability to try something new, something that might even fail, then change will become difficult.  That&#039;s why I suspect that the official Chinese Christian church will be less dynamic than the grass root house churches.

But even the house churches are under constraints that we are not accustomed to.  Any house church that does something that&#039;s really successful is likely to  draw more attention from the government, limiting how much growth a good idea can create.  Since the churches with good ideas get stamped out of existence, there&#039;s no effective way for those good ideas to get communicated to other churches.  One can say, &quot;Hey this is a good idea&quot; but it&#039;s a much more powerful message when it&#039;s backed with &quot;and look at how great it&#039;s working over here&quot;.

Until the Chinese government gets out of the job of regulating religion, creativity will be slow.  Much slower than would happen in the US.  Here, freedom of religion is the first right expressed in our constitution.  So we&#039;ve come to expect a highly dynamic environment.  In China, the government is under a different mandate.  We should expect change to be slow.  I have thoughts on our government &lt;a href=&quot;http://dullgeek.blogspot.com/2008/03/hankerin-2.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;on my blog&lt;/a&gt;.  The Chinese government, is much much worse than ours.

There is another possible answer to the question of why churches in China organize and behave similarly to churches in the West.  Maybe it&#039;s what I said above, but maybe it&#039;s that doing church that way is the most effective for the most people.  I don&#039;t know the answer.  I suspect that there are better ways, but maybe that&#039;s just me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that the relatively new Chinese church is going to do church this way forever.    I suspect that the official church will have a harder time changing than the house churches.</p>
<p>The Chinese Christian church is relatively new.  Whenever people do something new, the first thing that they do (wisely) is look around at how someone else is doing it, and imitate.  Over time, however, they find things that they don&#8217;t like and change them.  Sometimes it takes a while to figure out what you don&#8217;t like.  And even more time to figure out what change you want to put in place.</p>
<p>The key, however to this dynamism, is freedom.  If the Chinese Christians have constraints on their ability to try something new, something that might even fail, then change will become difficult.  That&#8217;s why I suspect that the official Chinese Christian church will be less dynamic than the grass root house churches.</p>
<p>But even the house churches are under constraints that we are not accustomed to.  Any house church that does something that&#8217;s really successful is likely to  draw more attention from the government, limiting how much growth a good idea can create.  Since the churches with good ideas get stamped out of existence, there&#8217;s no effective way for those good ideas to get communicated to other churches.  One can say, &#8220;Hey this is a good idea&#8221; but it&#8217;s a much more powerful message when it&#8217;s backed with &#8220;and look at how great it&#8217;s working over here&#8221;.</p>
<p>Until the Chinese government gets out of the job of regulating religion, creativity will be slow.  Much slower than would happen in the US.  Here, freedom of religion is the first right expressed in our constitution.  So we&#8217;ve come to expect a highly dynamic environment.  In China, the government is under a different mandate.  We should expect change to be slow.  I have thoughts on our government <a href="http://dullgeek.blogspot.com/2008/03/hankerin-2.html" rel="nofollow">on my blog</a>.  The Chinese government, is much much worse than ours.</p>
<p>There is another possible answer to the question of why churches in China organize and behave similarly to churches in the West.  Maybe it&#8217;s what I said above, but maybe it&#8217;s that doing church that way is the most effective for the most people.  I don&#8217;t know the answer.  I suspect that there are better ways, but maybe that&#8217;s just me.</p>
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